Chantelle Austin - July 5, 2009
This is an interview with a fascinating woman named Chantelle Austin from ChantelleAustin.com and also the author of "The Ultimate Swingers Guide". As I've said to her, when I found her website and started reading, it forced me to "think outside of my personal box" a little bit as I've never really done much research on non-traditional relationships and, in particular, swinging. I almost didn't pursue reading her site, but then something caught my interest.
It was Chantelle herself. I could see that, first of all, she was knowledgeable about her area of expertise (which gives her great credibility to me). But the way she shares this knowledge is what really drew me in. She's a real person! She has a husband and children who she adores. She's down-to-earth, open, honest, genuine and completely non-judgmental. She's using her life coaching education and her personal experience to help others who are looking for someone to talk to. Whether it be about their sexuality, their marriages or if they're struggling in their exploration for an alternative lifestyle, she wants to help.
If you're wondering why I chose her for an interview on my site this is why. If you've ever thought about doing something "different" within your relationship, I think you'll find her advice and comfortable approach extremely helpful. And if you're not, I hope this opens your eyes a little bit anyway. It certainly did that for me! It has made me think in a different way and has taught me that even if someone else's lifestyle isn't what I choose personally, I can still appreciate that they have found a way to make their relationship exciting and more intimate. I know from being in this business that there are a lot of people out there today who have lost their connection and are struggling in their intimate relationships (it's the number one reason for the high divorce rate). If someone has found a way to make theirs fabulous, then who am I to judge their methods? I think you'll find her story fascinating!
Hi Chantelle.
I'm constantly looking for sexually-related websites since I'm in the business of sex myself. I find it fascinating to get other people's perspectives on the vast realm of sexuality-related information that's out there. However, to be honest, I was not expecting to stumble upon a website that's about swinging. At first I thought, wow, that's an area that's really unconventional (and even taboo to some) so it made me take pause. To be honest, I almost clicked back off (because it's something I know very little about). But then my curiosity got the best of me. I started reading about you and getting to know you better. I was pleasantly surprised to see that you're a very normal, kind, caring person (as well as a wife and mother) who's made a choice to live a lifestyle that requires a little "out of the box" thinking (at least for some people). I was drawn to you and your candid story and learned so much by reading your website. What an eye opener this has been for me!
1. Were you always so comfortable and open-minded when it came to talking about sex or did certain events in your life contribute to who you are today (sexually speaking)?
Actually yes, for as long as I can remember it’s been something I’ve not had trouble talking about. I think to some degree the love of the shock factor has always been there too. My Mum was always up front and open with me about sex, she answered any question I had and I knew everything I needed to know about sex and my body before we had the sex education nights with school.
I specifically remember sitting at my first sex education night with Mum, both of us bored stupid while they rattled on about the differences between boys and girls. She turned to me and asked “is there anything here you don’t already know?” “Nope” was my reply… so we up and left.
We could talk about anything - I even told her when I lost my virginity! As long as I had safe sex, she was fine with whatever I did so I think the fact that I could talk about it with her made it easy for me to accept that it was all normal. I have friends whose parents never talked about it or acted as if it was dirty in some way, and today they have a much more conservative approach to sex, somewhat prudish in many ways. Some of their partners are even talking to me to try and help them be more adventurous in the bedroom; not necessarily swinging but just open to talking more about their fantasies and desires, and trying new things.
I honestly think that parents play a big part in how open and accepting their kids are, and thus how much guilt/shame they feel when they start to explore their sexual selves.
2. I see that you're also a fully certified Life Coach, Masters Coach (and Master in NLP). How do you use your education to help people become truly content with whom they are and the choices they make sexually?
I use my education as well as my life experience. I've been married twice, gone through a divorce and failed relationship, lost who I was and come through it to be a very well adjusted woman, sexually confident and in a phenomenal relationship. I have a lot of past experience to pull from. When I share my story, people feel less alone because I’ve had or done something similar. I even share the stuff that most people are afraid to admit.
Initially I help people become content with who they are and their sexual choices by being okay with mine and by being so open about my story and my choices. Many people just want confirmation that they aren’t alone, they're not weird and there’s nothing wrong with them for wanting something that’s not “traditional”. There is nothing wrong with them if they want to cross-dress, there’s nothing wrong with them if they feel like a girl in a guy’s body or vice versa. There’s nothing wrong with being part of a couple and enjoying sex with others!
Often it’s just the programming we’ve received from the people around us and past experiences that causes internal conflict and turmoil. It’s the emotional baggage that gets in the way of who we really are and our ability to be that person. It’s such a liberating experience to finally cut through the crap; to be our true selves, to do what’s right for us instead of living and loving based on someone else’s rules and expectations.
I use NLP to help people let go of their baggage (or dump their “love junk” ) and reprogram themselves to be able to love freely, be confident in themselves, to be content in their choices and with their natural sexuality (whatever that may be). I use coaching to educate people on positive relationship strategies and to help create stronger and more fulfilling long-term relationships with a partner and with themselves.
Each program is very individual. Even when I’m working with a couple, I work with them individually on their own emotional stuff because that has an impact on the relationship. Sometimes it’s as simple as suggesting another point of view that helps them make a change.
3. How did you originally get into swinging? Is it something you and your husband discovered together or were one of you already doing it when you first met?
When my current husband and I first met, I was in a wild phase. I had been out of my marriage a short four months. I was adamant that I keep my individuality and be myself, which happened to be flirtatious and into things for shock value! So I picked him up (a story he loves to tell) and within the first few weeks I managed to create a threesome with him and a girl friend of mine. In the back of my head I figured if I give him one with a girl he’ll “owe” me one with a guy. That was something I’d wanted to do for a while but with my last husband was not possible because he was such a jealous guy.
After that we really fell in love and just wanted each other for a bit, so we agreed that’s how it would be. It took a couple of years before we decided to see if we could find another guy to have a threesome with but I chickened out, which seems strange now considering what I do (smile).
We fell pregnant so that put a hold on that for a bit. A few years later I was doing all of my coaching and NLP courses, along with a bunch of personal development ones for myself and they were all interstate. I found while doing those I connected with some awesome people and felt attracted to a few of them. The after parties were the dangerous kind though with lots of alcohol. It was an emotionally charged few days and it would have been very easy to have a few one night stands.
Instead I played a little but would tell my husband what went on. Eventually I asked him if I could play up a bit more while I was away. He wasn’t 100% sure about it but said I could as long as I sent him messages telling him everything I got up to – Penthouse Forum style! This got both of us really hot so by the time I got home we’d practically jump each other in the car park! So he was gaining benefit from me “playing up a little”.
It evolved from there, while I was away in the UK he found AdultMatchMaker.com.au, created a couple profile for us, and we started meeting people together so he could join in the fun!
4. I imagine there were some adjustments at first. What was the process you went through as a couple to get to a place where you were both comfortable with the idea of swinging? Tell me about the hesitations or issues you had to work through (if any).
There were a lot of new conversations to be had about what each of us wanted to try, what we thought we’d be okay with and what we weren’t so sure of. I think that’s the hardest part - actually saying out loud to my life partner that I’d like to have sex with someone else and not being sure how he would react or what he’d say. It’s a whole new world and sometimes the conversations were a little uncomfortable because I was being extremely honest in sharing my deepest sexual desires.
At first he wasn’t sure how he’d feel seeing me with another guy, or even how he’d feel about having another naked man in the room. The first time it happened I was conscious of how he was feeling, checking in with him every so often to make sure he was okay with what was going on. It’s a different attitude to have and I think my openness and way of looking at it helped him to be able to see it the way I did – as an opportunity to overload your partner's senses with stimulation from all angles.
After each event there were also new conversations about what we liked, what we didn’t, what we would do differently next time, what new things we wanted to try as well as what things were done to us by someone else that we enjoyed! It's certainly not a conversation regular couples get to have. It worked out that each new experience gave us some new hot button that as a couple we started using on each other (which made us better lovers for each other). Our sex life got a turbo boost and continues to entertain us. We love the variety swinging offers.
5. What rules and boundaries do you have as a swinging couple? Are there certain lines you won't cross? Anything you just won't do because you feel that it violates a trust of any kind?
Our main rules are that we always use condoms and I don’t get to swallow for any other guys. Other than that, it’s anything as long as we both say it’s ok, so the discussions need to be had first. Neither one of us can just go out on our own and do whatever we want without the other saying it’s all right with them. If that were to happen, that breaks the trust that allows us to have the freedom we do.
6. How do you find the extra people or couples you choose to bring into your bedroom? What criteria do they need to meet before you deem them good "candidates"? Do both you and your husband have to agree on them together beforehand?
We tend to use two main methods:
- 1. Online dating sites such as AdultMatchMaker.com.au
- 2. Clubs and events where swingers go.
Having been in this lifestyle a few years now we’re more picky about who we let into our bedroom and as we’ve explored our sexuality, that seems to also play a part in who we are searching for at any given time.
If we meet them online, we check out their profile and see if they are likely to be the physical type we’d be attracted to, which is generally people who are similar in age and body type to us. Then we chat to them using MSN or something similar. We can usually tell early on if they are the kind of person we are looking for. If they are too keen it’s a turn off, but if they are easy going and happy to chat about anything, there’s a tick in the box to meet in person.
Our final decider is how we all interact in person. What makes them really attractive isn’t always how drop-dead-gorgeous they are. We find personality plays a big role in how sexy they are. We like people who are genuine, fun to hang out with and have a cheeky streak. The more open and bi they are, bonus!
Yes, both hubby and I need to be okay with that person/couple before it’s a green light to take it further.
7. I know that swinging is not considered a "norm" when it comes to what society dictates. Have you experienced any negativity from others who might be judgmental to your lifestyle?
We haven’t had that much negativity to be honest. My stepsister was the only one who was openly against the idea, but that’s because she’s an insanely jealous person in her own relationships so she couldn’t understand how we could be ok with sharing each other.
It seems like there are a large amount of people out there into it, yet are still agreeing that it’s “taboo” … At some point if everyone came out in the open, I think you’d see it’s closer to the “norm” than people realize. I know so many people that have at least tried it at some stage in their relationship and most have told me that it brought them closer together. I really don’t think people truly understand the possibilities and impact it can have if it’s done the right way… Which is partly why I wrote the book.
8. How open are you about your lifestyle? In other words, would the parents of your childrens' friends (for example) know that you're swingers? Or their teachers? I can't help but think they might know since you have published a book and have a website. Tell me a little about how you deal with that.
Lots of our friends and some of our immediate family know but I can’t say teachers and our kids parents know. I’m more open about it than my husband. That said, there is more potential for negative reactions about him than me since he’s gone down the bisexual road and to be out and open about that is different than a woman doing the same. But that's something I aim to change (smile).
At the end of the day, if someone has an issue with it, they have an issue with it. Whether it's our relationship choices or our exploration of sexuality it doesn’t matter. We can’t change their mind, all we can do is accept that it’s just their model of the world that we no longer fit in. As always happens, when someone disappears from your life, it makes room for someone else that fits in better with who you are and where you’re going.
As for the kids friends parents, we’ll just have to cross that bridge if it ever comes up.
9. Does your family (and that of your husband's) know about your lifestyle? If so, how do they feel about it?
My Mum and sister know and while it’s not for them, they are happy as long as we are. My Dad is a fairly religious man so he has his own beliefs around “the dangers” of having fun with other people and doesn’t want to know what we get up to, something about “fathers don’t want to know certain things about their little girls”.
My husband’s parents and most of his siblings don’t know. His half brother who’s gay does know and supports us in our choices but stresses that we play safe
10. Chantelle, what inspired you to write a book about swinging and then build a website around the book and the subject matter?
I wrote the book because I struggled to find information when I wanted it, but also because I felt that having a life coaching background made it easier for us to transition from a traditional relationship to an alternative one. I wanted to help others that were like us.
I also witnessed a few other couples in the lifestyle that didn’t have it all together and as a consequence, their relationship broke down. While there was information about where to go and how to meet people (including swinger do’s and dont's), there wasn’t much about the relationship fundamentals for this new dynamic or the conversations that should be had along the way.
I found myself helping other couples and people who were curious but weren’t sure how to go about it. I had so much fun writing about it with each new experience I had. Plus I wrote about it while it was still fresh in my mind so it would be more relevant to other beginners. The “What If” section seems to be one of the most helpful as it’s dealing with the fears and concerns people have but are too afraid to ask or say out loud. This includes some of my own (shhh, don’t tell anyone though, lol).
The website seemed to be best way to get it out there and the next natural step was the other content. As I’ve evolved, we’ve evolved. As we continue to explore, it gives me more to write about. Since I’m not too afraid to put myself out there, I may as well be the one that shares what I feel, think and do so that others might gain some courage to explore who they are and find out what’s right for them (especially if it’s not traditional).
11. Your website also covers subjects such as bi-sexuality, monogamy and vagina size (just a few examples). I understand you're expanding and updating your website as we speak. Tell me what we can expect from the exciting changes taking place on your site.
A whole new look and feel, now that I have a real logo and brand designed (yet to be revealed). It will be a new site with more reviews on toys, clubs, events, stories/books and sites, a small store for select adult paraphernalia, CD’s and books that are beneficial to couples who want to explore together and connect deeper.
In addition to that, I'll have small e-courses people can do in their own time to enhance their relationship with themselves as well as with their partner. I believe that the relationship strength has a lot to do with the individual's self esteem, belief systems and how much emotional baggage (or “love junk”) they have brought with them from previous relationships.
I have some really exciting retreats and workshops coming up later in the year to help people dump their "love junk" and create stronger bonds in their current relationship or future one.
There will be other guest writers with different expertise than mine such as sexologists and sex therapists. My aim is to have a place where people can go to get honest answers if they have sex questions or are having thoughts about the things that aren’t considered “normal”(such as having a threesome, swinging, fetishes or bi-sexuality).
Due to a high number of people that contact me about their secret desires to play with the same sex, I’m creating “The Green Room” where people can come and ask questions about sexuality, connect with bisexual communities, and any other sexuality that doesn’t have a “group” . The idea being that many think there is something wrong with them if they have sexual feelings that aren’t the usual male-female attraction, particularly men, and that is not the case. This room is about acceptance of others and acceptance of self, no judgment, just exploration and like-minded people supporting each other. It will have information and links to resources to pursue that sexuality exploration.
The Green Room is traditionally the place actors and such go before they hit the stage, to prepare and get ready to shine. This is what I see The Green Room doing for people, giving them the space to explore sexuality, gain confidence and own who they are. I want them to get to a place where they can be “out and proud” no matter who they are in the world.
So as you can see, I have a lot of work to do and it will happen over the next few months but my current site has a lot of the content already on it, with more reviews and articles going up each week. Chantelle’s Diary is becoming more popular as I add more personal thoughts and feelings about my experiences. I’m not perfect, I’m just as human as anyone else and this is the space I express it.
It’s a no-holds-barred site, so you can expect candid, honest writing as I stand in a public space sharing who I am and what I do. I hope that others will gain the courage to explore and discover who they are, particularly if it’s not “normal”. This is the place for them to be.
